A typical scene thats now playing out in transmission shops across the country goes something like this: A late-model, full-size truck or SUV is dropped off to get the transmission checked out. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. $ 439.00 Select options. Hi Jeff, The small 10-speed gear steps allow the engine speed to drop to lower values than it would in the 6-speed transmission, providing for the best fuel economy. RATIOS 4.70, 2.99, 2.15, 1.80, 1.52, 1.28, 1.00, .85, .69, .64. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: The 10R80 has ten forward speeds, one reverse speed produced through the following components: The 10R80 utilizes six shift solenoids that are listed by the factory as A-F and are linear force solenoids (Figure 1). The 6L90 has a beefier set of gears and many internal upgrades. How quickly time passes by. I & II Reply. A second electric 10L80 pump maintains fluid pressure when the stop/start function activates. Members
Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. Brake very gently to a complete stop and hold the foot brake for five (5) seconds. Its interesting how the new 8- and 10-speed automatics have essentially turned the traditional powertrain ratio scheme 180 degrees. But I was su unhappy with it I sold a bunch of parts and began changing the built. 2nazty New Member. You know where this is going yup, its the converter. The Ford version is built at their Livonia transmission plant (Ford spent a reported $1.4 billion on retooling to build this transmission), and the GM version is built only a few miles away at their transmission factory in Romulus Michigan (GM spent a comparatively cheap $323 million retooling this factory). My problem with the 4L80E is it was always a workhorse and in the past 25-30 years trucks have gotten much quicker and versatile. 8 Options if Your Transmission Has Failed, Transmission Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTC), Best Remanufactured Transmission Companies, Hybrid Battery Replacement Cost and Prices, 10 Most Common Transmission Problems & How to Fix Them, How to Change Transmission Fluid Step by Step, What is a Transmission Flush? Will it be like the 5th gen's where the ss got the 6L80 and the more powerful ZL1 got the 6L90? So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. Genuine ICT Billet - Bolts Made in USA!!!! Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. It was created to help GM meet ever more demanding CAFE regulations on their vehicles. These tight gear ratios not only allow for lightning fast upshifts and downshifts. Wait 3-5 minutes before driving. How quickly time passes by. Shop Finder
Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. Related Articles Dana offers Spicer end yokes for Allison Transmissions ATI introduces six-speed Chevy transmission performance package Georend Transmission adds Ford 6R140 transmission pan kit. LT). Be aware of your output shaft version before proceeding with any adaptation. As transmission builders know, it can be difficult to determine a root cause when you are looking at a catastrophic failure, with rotating parts crashing into each other. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear. Codes P0741 or P1744 may or may not set in the PCM or TCM (depending on application). Which one you use is going to depend on whether or not the transmission is in or out of the vehicle. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. The 4L80 features a 310 mm torque converter. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. You are browsing camaro6. Ford describes their two different shift strategies as single and double step shifts. The 10L80 moniker is decoded. To handle the increased output torque capacity, the 6L90 departed from the long-standing GM 32 spline specification output shaft of the 6L80 and went to larger diameter 29 spline for most truck applications. The GM 10L80 Hydra-Matic transmission is one such hybrid component that General Motors jointly developed with, wait for it, the Ford Motor Company! Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. Starting in 1996, many 4L60E transmissions employed a bolt-on bellhousing. Sixth 1.28 Thx You will need to ship your transmission to us for the rebuild. Tenth 0.64 Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. The source of the contamination, however, is not readily apparent. The thicker JMBX piston cant conform to the cover (like it can in the 4L60-E TMBX), and at a commanded slip rate of approximately 50 RPMs in lockup, there is ultimately metal-to-metal contact that occurs between the front cover and the piston. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. TH350 High Performance Transmissions / 850 Hp Full Race, TH400 High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage VI, TH200-4R High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage III och Full Race, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4l65E High Performance Transmissions / Stage II - Stage V, 4L80E / 4L85E High Performance Transmissions / Stage I - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E High Performance Transmissions / Standard - 1000Hp, Speed Potential Calculator for Ring Gear and Pinion Changes, Engine Alternatives. But look at the clutch pistons and spring dampers they are markedly different. This platform did not get Gen 4 (58x CKP) engines until 2008. About 80% of issues are cured by updating the programming. Nov 26 . Getrag 260 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Getrag. Structurally, the 8L90 is similar to the 8L45, except that it is made to handle more power and torque. Click Here to Email our Sales & Tech Staff 888-748-4655 Local: 330-965-7146 International: 001-330-652-5855 Mon-Fri 8am-5pm EST Sat-Sun: Closed The gearing spread is a very capable 6.04, with ratios in each gear as follows: First: 4.02, Second: 2.36, Third: 1.53, Fourth: 1.15, Fifth: .085, Sixth: 0.67, Reverse: 3.06. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. var d=new Date();
The 8L90 and 6L80 have the same size output shaft and mounting pattern. 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild We all know that automatic transmission failures can have many root causes. The idler gear is what drives the pumps driven gear. The bottom line: The very thin (.020") woven carbon friction material cant survive the way the JMBX piston applies. The General Motors 6L80-E & 6L90-E transmissions are among the most diverse and capable transmissions of their time; being used in everything from exciting muscle cars to family SUV's. In this Drivetrain 101, we'll analyze all of its most prolific problems, solutions and upgrades. When other diagnostic trouble codes are present, there can be different, specific drivability concerns caused by the failure management program. Thats pretty much all thats to it. Need to convert 10L80 rom 4wd to 2wd. Retiring Early The Transmission Industry Has Been a Dream Come True, A two-piece valve body with eight solenoids. One common 6l80 issue due to design flaws include premature clutch failure. August 8, 2022. If the warmer is not mounted to the transmission, refer to factory information to locate it. The 4L80E is a very large, heavy transmission but, like its original TH-400 cousin, it can absorb and transmit an enormous amount of engine torque. This allows him to see what kinds of issues some of these transmissions come back to the dealer with while under warranty. Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. If youre having problems with your 10L80 youre going to want the most economical solution. only) '72-'79, Small Block V8, Gen. Legal/Privacy. Automatic Options - 4L60 and 4L60E. Im with you on AFM is crap. 10L80 Performance Rebuild. Internally they are very different but at least with the 8l90 you do not need to completely disassemble the transmission to convert to 4wd from 2wd. or Best Offer . Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. The complaint is usually associated with the vehicle sitting for a while (after it has been running at operating temperature). The overall First gear ratio is 2.48 x 4.10 = 10.17:1. After programming, perform the Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle and reevaluate the vehicle. Based around the 4L80E (and fitting wherever a 4L80E will fit), the 6X is a true six-speed transmission that TCI rates at 850-plus horsepower. All this is handled with application of planetary ratios. This is an immediate DTC that effects emissions. It has a line pressure tap for diagnostic purposes. However, it is a long transmission and is not compatible with short-wheelbase Jeeps such as the CJ5. Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. This drives up the price of the rebuilt converter, but ensures that this kind of failure wont happen again. In contrast, when the 10-speed transmission is at heavy or max throttle, the small steps keep the engine closer to the horsepower peak for the best performance. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. That certainly holds true for the 6L80, 6L90. Repeat Steps 3 through 9 six (6) additional times. _____ HBM 2016 2SS A8 NPP Pray . Become a 6L80-E and 6L90-E expert now! GM 10L80: A new kind of pump noise. The stator shaft support housing is fitted with a converter drive gear and idler gear. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. Now controlled by computers, the E series transmission allowed for a wide range of tuning options. Now it has RPM Level 6 but if a 6L80E or 6L90E swap was introduced or even the 8 and 10 transmissions it would be a game changer. Both 2wd and 4wd versions of the 6L80 can be used equally well, and there are no inherent advantages to either one once you have installed our adapter assembly. Accelerator pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling, TCC scheduling, and transmission diagnostics. GM states, ". OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. R.F. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. Change Your Address, Yes, I would like to receive emails from Gears Magazine. Ford considers this to be a normal condition! 2. Reactions: me32. $499.00. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 or gross weight of 14,000 lbs. All previous GM automatic transmissions were virtually all based on hydraulic controls, and received increasing electrical elements as they modernized. Fluid Type Mercon ULV ATF So, what's the unique problem with the 6L80, 6L90 converter found in full-size vehicles? What came first: the chicken or the egg? I have a 2012 Corvette Grand Sport Auto trans. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). I have a 700 R4 trani with a dash mounted after market switch to engage or disengage my lock up.The trani has a 2500 stall & is behind a old school 383 stroker engine with 388 hp at the motor with a 3.73 Rr gear. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. Recommended fluid is Dexron VI and it typically accepts a 10 quart thru 12.6 quart fill depending on its application. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. The overall First gear ratio is deeper at 2.97:1 which means the car builder can leave a taller rear gear ratio in the rear end and still have great First gear acceleration. Honda CR-V Hybrid Racer Is an 800-HP Test Bed. Then, of course, Sixth gear is still 0.75:1 overdrive. Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. Shift the transmission to Reverse. The transmission can also signal the engine to drop power during a shift if there's a possibility of clutch damage. The exceptions to this would be the 2006-2014 Corvette, 2006 G8, 2010-2015 Camaro, and the Chevrolet SS. For instance, transmission techs with any time under their belts can tell you all about 3-4 clutch failure in GM 4L60-Es, intermediate stub shaft failure in Ford 4R70Ws and solenoid issues in Aisin AW 55-50s. GM LS1 - 9 and Chrysler/Mopar Gen III & Viper V10, Chevrolet Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Chrysler Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Ford Transmissions with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, Torque Converters with Dimensions and Fluid Capacity, TH700R4 / 4L60E / 4L65E Stage II - Stage V, 6L80E / 6L90E Frn Std till 1000Hp version, 6L80E / 6L90E From Stock to 1000Hp version. Your email address will not be published. Its the a10 (10L80) from the Silverado. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. The 10L80 transmission is a 10-speed longitudinal automatic transmission that was designed to operate near the efficiency of a CVT while improving fuel economy in GM high-horsepower vehicles highlighted by the Camaro, Suburban, Tahoe, and Escalade. There are swaps for the 6L80 and 6L90 but they dont support all the Trailblazers. Engine speed: Directly affects shift scheduling, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) control, line pressure, and transmission diagnostics. It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. What is your recomendation for towing? Page 2 August, 2019 Bulletin No. This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. The Sonnax forged covers and pistons are designed to be flat and will stay that way through the forces of converter welding, miles of driving and varying input torque from the engine. They all look really similar, so make sure that you bother to count the pan gasket bolts, especially if you have an untrained eye. Transmission Report: 6L80, 6L90 Transmission Tech Advisory: Consider an Updated Converter in Your Next Rebuild. If concerns are still present, it may be necessary to service or replace the valve body assembly (Figure 6). Your cooperation with this program is greatly appreciated. The transmission typically accepts a 6.3 quart fill. It is currently phasing out the 6L80/6L90 transmissions (although it hasn't done its all the way yet. Allows easy highway cruising, seamless downshifts, Transbrake and 2nd gear (2.34) leave options through multiple templates tuned independently of the engine management system! The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. It is now on week number 7 at the dealer for warranty and the GM engineers are running that show only allowing the dealer to replace what they deem necessary. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. 6L80E Specs The 6L80 is a robust transmission and can handle a ton of power. and GCVW of 21,000 lbs. You also asked about GMs new 6L80E. Thanks for the question! This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. You can scribe numbers on them from 1-6 if you choose for a quick reminder of their location. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. The 10L80 was a joint engineering effort between GM and Ford. Looking for parts number : new shaft, copling et seal and where to find them. Third 2.15 We pride ourselves in staying at the forefront of our industry, technology, research & development and our commitment to you, our customer. Special tools are often needed when diagnosing transmission problems and overhauling units. If the transmission is in the vehicle you can use the RPO tag in the glove compartment. Remember, this is just a theory. The 6 speed takes a fair amount of trans tunnel work and my Holley Dominator ECU can't control it. and it can handle a total gross vehicle weight of 8,600 lb, which makes it a great transmission for LS swaps with no modification needed whatsoever. 6R80E Chevy Transmission Kit ATI has the first true externally controlled, 6-speed transmission package for your Chevrolet powered vehicle! Hi, im doing a swap from Yukon 2019 to 1987 Regal. Within only a year, GM had introduced an even stronger variant of the 6L80; the 6L90, RPO code MYD. Application RWD & 4WD / AWD While the 6L80 is generally mechanically compatible with Chevrolet and GM Gen. III+ engines, due to its advanced control strategy, the 6L80 is functionally compatible only with Generation IV GM engines and their matched Engine Control Modules. and can weigh up to ~230 lbs. I think the extra gears and the taller overdrive would be nice but I wonder if it's worth all the effort. To give you a sense of scope, for every single forged replacement cover that Sonnax sells for the 4L60-E TMBX, we sell many, many more for the 6L80/90 JMBX. 8L80E That is just the beginning. A sectioned image of the 4L60-E TMBX and 6L80, 6L90 JMBX (Figure 3) shows the external profiles of the respective front covers are very similar. They can then use these unseen components throughout their different product lines and improve their profit margins through the lower shared development costs. This version is 1-3/8" longer and about 25% of its internal parts differ. * 10L90E TRANSMISSION. Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. A remanufactured 10L80 on the other hand, is completely remanufactured, and its designed to exceed the manufacturers original specifications. $3,245*. Heres what we mean: Lets assume we have a TH-400 trans in our Chevelle with a 4.10:1 rear gear. I also have a 2wd 2006 Trailblazer SS with a forged 416ci stroked LS3 which makes around 600 hp or so with a Yank SS3600 stall converter. Although the basic engineering is the same, the GM 10L80 and Ford 10R80 each have proprietary control software, along with a few other differences that are suited for each specific application. At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. To view our 2020 replacement transmission pricing guide, click here. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. Running 12.60s at 111 is a fun ride! Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. The 6L80 began manufacture in 2005 for release in 2006 model year GM vehicles, persisting until at least 2016 in both 6L80 and 6L90 versions. Is the out put shaft and splines on a 4L80E the same as a turbo 400? The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. We are High Performance Transmission Builders GM LS1 - LS9 / Chrysler Gen III and Viper V10, Conversion. Many who work in the dealerships have become privy to the immediate failures that occur in this unit. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. It probably wont do much for the elapsed time which is all that really matters. Your car is quick! vehicle weights. Mine did it on flat ground only it downshifted four or more gears with a loud bang then jumped back up to tenth with the same bang. Second 2.99 Cadillac CT5 2021 MHS Automatic 10L80 Transmission 10-Speed 24294949 AWD 2427812. While not new to the 6L80, it uses an Input Speed Sensor to monitor input speeds to compare against engine speed and Output Shaft Sensor speed, using this data to adjust shift speeds under instantly detectable conditions. But once he had the parts and the job was complete, the noise issue was resolved, confirming the cause to be the idler gear spinning around the ball bearings outer race. Newer to the transmission world is its use of direct clutch-to-clutch shifting and the total lack of bands. Did the converter clutch material just wear out, thus allowing the clutch and cover to go metal-on-metal? After a prolonged drive time, DTC P0752 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Stuck On and P0973 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Circuit Low also set. The 6L80 features a generously deep first gear for an automatic, making for favorably powerful starts from a standing stop. Hi Jeff, I have a 2016 Silverado with the 5.3 and the 8 speed transmission. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. GM now also offers both 8- and 10-speed automatics. Just keep scanning it until you find the one you are looking for. It employs an even deeper First gear ratio of 4.02:1 with tighter gear splits but does not apply an overdrive for subsequent gears. - Critical wear areas and vacuum test locations: GM 10L and Ford 10R series, - Shift pointers: A 4T65-E that wants to move in Park and Neutral, Being tuned in: The value of transmission tuning, Ford harsh downshifts: 6R75 2-1, 10R60 7-6, Announcing the winners of the Top 20 Products and Tools contest, Diagnosing an unusual problem: A slow-to-respond solenoid, Video: Lubegard Limited Slip Supplement overview, Diagnosing Chrysler transmission max line pressure and P0933, P0869, P1745 codes, How to service the Honda 10-speed transmission, Solving electronic control problems in todays automatic transmissions, Sonnax highlights 10L/10R solenoid stabilization retainer, 9T clip insert, GFX adds new pump for vintage Powerglide models, Searching for the source of an unexpected transmission fluid leak, Transmission slipping in fifth gear: An elusive cause of a common problem, 10R80/10L90 Ford & GM Ten Speed Unique Filter System.